I struggle a lot emotionally because of my inclination to perfectionism. It caused a lot of stress and anxiety and I almost put myself to the edge as if I fail to be perfect, my life is going to be useless.
I had my two children out of wedlock and stayed on disabilities for more than 4 years. I recently met their father who is soon to be retiring. It was until I got pregnant when I was 15 that I left home. The guilt has stayed with me and I don’t know if I ever want to make up for it or if I ever have to in order to make peace with myself. I feel that I did what anyone would do. to keep up with your responsibilities. somehow when I saw their father it just felt paralyzed. Could it be for fear to get it imperfectly
This was very profound for myself. As a therapist – I struggle with perfectionism. I thought I had this nipped after my university career in which I had loose bowels and intense fears with exams and assignments. Over the years, I would say to myself, it is okay to make mistakes and not be perfect. However, listening to this video – I see how this ongoing addiction to perfectionism is now affecting my current life and partnership. I withdraw and often feel paralyzed in my failures and lack of abilities in my world, my business, my body, my life, my relationship. As a result, the avoidant behaviour leads to my paralysis and thus am always looking for the next person to train with to be “better” than I am in. I have been suffering in my partnership for many things that I perceive I am able to be good at. And for sure, seeing how the co-regulation is a key piece for this addiction. That is why AA works, it helps people to get at the underlying feelings and start to feel OK as a human. Thank you for the piece as I continue to work on myself, I can assist my own clients.
Caroline – Its been clarified that perfectionism is NOT an addiction because it can only bring the good out of as a result of the learned behavior. I can’t afford the extra trainings but hopefully in the future there will be more free vids on it. HOpe this helps. Best, Jasmine
Wonderful, lucid presentation. I am going to work with the ideas here with several of my clients, especially those with relationship problems alongside.
Starting with that question:
What are the costs of perfectionism? I hear you have reconsidered it as a form of addiction whilst also offering a type of protection against fear and the unpredictability of life. I need to watch again to absorb more of this, as with the earlier workshop.
Thank you.
Parts A & B have been so very interesting – lots of food for thought, particularly with regard to my own tendencies and where they may have come from. Aren’t relationships fascinating?
According to the ancient yoga traditions, behaviours are the root cause of disturbance to the physical and mental aspects of an individual. As many behaviours are reactions to events/environments they can become repetitive, habitual and even addictive. I hadn’t thought of perfectionism in this way but of course it fits with yoga concepts – and for many yoga practitioners it is being reinforced daily on their practice mats (which is just the opposite of the ancient teachings).
My students are encouraged to become aware of, and have respect for, their less than perfect bodies and find ways of becoming more comfortable and stable – with themselves, with others, with their environments. Once perfection is no longer the objective, then a successful outcome is more likely to become attainable. It’s an ongoing process of building relationship, not a target.
Brigid Tuescher, Another Field, San Rafael, CA, USAsays
I have a number of personally important thoughts upon watching the video about Perfectionism, although I think only two are possibly more helpful to a wider group of people.:
The spiritual practice of worshiping God who created “me” perfectly relieved me of most of my perfectionistic habits because, by way of A Course in Miracles, I found the fulfillment of my need for parental guidance and correction both outside and inside myself through the remedy of Atonement; secondly, I arrived by age 4 to a deap-seated PTSD (in 1968) when I escaped an attempt by four large men to kidnap me from my family home. This set my life’s journey on a path which was pre-disposed to performing in panic mode (flight, fright or freeze) and making “it” look easy and/or sound natural. I became an ultra-high achiever but with tragic life events concommittently. For me, perfectionism is a name for control, for reigning my scatterbrained panic (which is normal to me now) and condensing my energy so that I can express myself at least a little bit. I don’t have any of my needs fulfilled but I am always, now that I am diagnosed not as a psychotic but as having PTSD, working with Seeking Safety good coping skills list to re-invent the fabric of my life. I continue as a 54 year old woman to live homeless, single, and with an immensely gifted ability register in social isolation. I could appreciate the concept of co-regulation with a partner who is not a therapist in order to, for example, match the cat with the cat and the flower with the flower — that is to say, work is work and lover or child is humanity and certain things in life should receive more humane attention and certain aspects of life need different types of responses from me. That particular associative re-wiring would only be helpful in a two-person raft to avoid another type of egoism. Relationships with others are impossible in survival mode in my experience. I think the diagnosis which may or may not exist in clients with perfectionistic tendencies could be the main factor in determining the course of treatment for the main reason of relationship starvation.
The need to experience very deeply, every shade of love there is for having been surviving without any love, in “biological imperative mode” for so long all the various major love relations (both parents, siblings, best friend’s, lover’s- both physical and emotional best friends) all need placement in my life and in the life of any individual like me. Once found, it is like water to a man lost in the desert.
Thank you for the wonderful presentations. Placing perfectionism in the context of addictive behavior has clarified for me why clients have such difficulty relinquishing this behavior. I really appreciated the reminder to focus on the costs of perfectionism rather than just challenging the irrational beliefs.
I’m a clinical counsellor and also a lecturer at a university. I wonder how I can help students (and professors) feel safe in an academic culture that fosters perfectionism. Perhaps we could cultivate a culture that fosters connectedness instead? Does this mean going against the flow?
I have a client who has been off work for a number of months due to anxiety and stress. The client has been back to work for few weeks and reports symptoms have come back. After viewing the video and the Autonomic Ladder I feel I have a better understanding of why the symptoms for this client have returned. It appears perfectionism is the issue and the client is paying the price. The price is not getting the sleep needed for the next day at work due to having to get everything done before going to bed. I liked Segal’s example of having the client learn about the price of perfectionism. I plan to explore this with my client and encourage client to experience not completing one task.
My client is myself and I think I’m over perfectionism. In fact others have asked me whether, rather than having wide interests and pursuits where I just like to dabble, I’d tried doing less things to a greater depth and more competence.
I still prefer many pursuits and master of none. It also allows me connection with a wider group of people.
Neil, you might appreciate some of Barbara Sher’s books about people she calls Scanners, who have many interests. She’s very persuasive about how one can live a fine life that way with no need to change it. Titles include I Could Do Anything if I Only Knew What it Was, Refuse to Choose!, and others.
Randi Waxman, Another Field, Cleveland, OH, USAsays
Hi, I watched some of the video about perfectionism and how it cause problems. In explaining it to my husband who I think is a perfectionist who passed that trait (not that I’m blameless) to our 23 year old son who is accomplishing nothing, the best I could relay was that if a person is always only happy with perfect and they rarely get perfect it causes them to give up trying. Can you help me put it in a way to tell my son, who I am trying to be nice to- it’s not easy. . Thanks
I can tend toward perfectionism. Mine manifests itself not in mastery or paralysis necessarily but towards paralysis. I’ve noticed in my home remodeling projects over the past 20 years that I have begun many projects I have never previously attempted nor been trained to do. My perfectionism can rear its’ ugly head in accomplishing a task to a 90% degree of completion (My wife sometimes affectionately calls me “90% Jeff”). That way I avoid self and other’s judgments. Maybe we can think of perfectionism expressing itself as the extremes on a continuum from paralysis to busyness, the middle being the gray areas of life.
I can tend toward perfectionism. Mine manifests itself not in mastery or paralysis necessarily but towards paralysis. I’ve noticed in my home remodeling projects over the past 20 years that I have begun many projects I have never previously attempted nor been trained to do. My perfectionism can rear its’ ugly head in accomplishing a task to a 90% degree of completion (My wife sometimes affectionately calls me “90% Jeff”). That way I avoid self and other’s judgments. Maybe we can think of perfectionism expressing itself as the extremes on a continuum from paralysis to busyness, the middle being the gray areas of life.
Ronit Lev, Marriage/Family Therapy, cupertino, CA, USAsays
This video helped me think of a client with very high anxiety, anger. That person symptoms may all be due to perfectionism.
Thank you for these insights.
This was really insightful. I can see my own behaviours clearly here but can now see what the root cause may be and thus, what needs to be worked on. Thank you.
I was very drawn to the discussion of perfection presenting as a Type A style or embedded in paralysis with the common denominator being a “constrictor of thinking.” As a teacher I can see how perfection is a mindset…a “fixed” mindset that can limit one’s willingness to put themselves out there to try new things or engage with new people. When that paralysis of thinking emerges I find it helpful to ask if we are talking about a fact or a feeling and to remind them that feelings can be changed…to try to move them more toward a growth mindset.
Imperfection can be seen to have numerous benefits.
Making mistakes and consciously acknowledging them, without judgment, can create and nurture compassion for one’s self. Self-compassion can graduate to compassion for others, especially when they have made a mistake. We can learn to cultivate kindness and acceptance of others. We can consciously work on developing empathy.
Making mistakes can also be an effective way to learn. If we get something right the first time, we may not have the deepest understanding of a process or lesson. When we make a mistake, the need to go back over the material in order to gain clarity of detail or approach may give us a more comprehensive and long-lasting understanding.
Being able to be consciously aware of, and accept, our own failures can relieve us of the burden of believing we need to have all the answers for everyone else. Who needs that kind of pressure? And who really wants the perfect answers we are offering? When we struggle, what do we want from another? If a surgeon makes a mistake and someone we love dies, what do we want? Do we want a smart analysis of what went wrong, or do we want someone with a heart who is grieving along with us? Maybe we want both.
Being able to successfully fail can help us to develop a sense of curiosity about the world, a sense of humor about ourselves, and a wider view of the possibilities life has to offer.
Failure is a great way to recognize blind spots: what assumption(s) did we make that led to this error?
One way to explore the positive side of mistakes and failures is to do an Internet search on accidental inventions and discoveries.
I fail all the time…failure is one of my greatest teachers.
This was very enlightening. I struggle with perfectionism, but the cost became more clear to me during this video. I realized the need to be perfect in grad school, drove me to overachieve at the cost of relationships with family members and friends. The encouragement of letting some things be imperfect is one thing that I have practiced. Now I will add to examine where the feelings of discomfort will take me.
This video helped me think of a client with very high anxiety. That person may be frozen by perfectionism.
Thank you for these insights.
Allowed a client to discuss all areas shed taken over in her life as she was best at doing them and reflect on effect that had . She now couldn’t get her husband to cook as shed done it all .. also running as a hobby had become about improving yet another pressure … friendships based on running so all fitting into better , faster more perfect model .. its an ongoing process to move her away from this but will use the knowledge gained here to help.
This description of perfectionism matches my son’s “just right” OCD diagnosis which has been lingering now for 6 years. My son lost his father at age 2, and through the course of his childhood, became a “perfect” student and nationally ranked athlete, until one day when he broke-down, and he has not been able to function since. He has been in OCD treatment off and on for 5 years but has not made significant progress (I believe because progress will force him to re-enter life, enroll in school, and risk failure). I am desperate to find someone who can explain to him why this is happening. I invite others who believe they may be able to help to reach out.
Your video confirms the dynamics involved for one of my clients who experienced a lack of interpersonal safety with a parent growing up. Over time this became a pattern of OCD with fears of contamination, starting with interactions with the parent, but has continued to grow to other life interactions. This client has only just started talking about his relationship with his parent and some of these dynamics are coming to light. Thank you for a timely video!
I struggle a lot emotionally because of my inclination to perfectionism. It caused a lot of stress and anxiety and I almost put myself to the edge as if I fail to be perfect, my life is going to be useless.
I had my two children out of wedlock and stayed on disabilities for more than 4 years. I recently met their father who is soon to be retiring. It was until I got pregnant when I was 15 that I left home. The guilt has stayed with me and I don’t know if I ever want to make up for it or if I ever have to in order to make peace with myself. I feel that I did what anyone would do. to keep up with your responsibilities. somehow when I saw their father it just felt paralyzed. Could it be for fear to get it imperfectly
This was very profound for myself. As a therapist – I struggle with perfectionism. I thought I had this nipped after my university career in which I had loose bowels and intense fears with exams and assignments. Over the years, I would say to myself, it is okay to make mistakes and not be perfect. However, listening to this video – I see how this ongoing addiction to perfectionism is now affecting my current life and partnership. I withdraw and often feel paralyzed in my failures and lack of abilities in my world, my business, my body, my life, my relationship. As a result, the avoidant behaviour leads to my paralysis and thus am always looking for the next person to train with to be “better” than I am in. I have been suffering in my partnership for many things that I perceive I am able to be good at. And for sure, seeing how the co-regulation is a key piece for this addiction. That is why AA works, it helps people to get at the underlying feelings and start to feel OK as a human. Thank you for the piece as I continue to work on myself, I can assist my own clients.
Caroline – Its been clarified that perfectionism is NOT an addiction because it can only bring the good out of as a result of the learned behavior. I can’t afford the extra trainings but hopefully in the future there will be more free vids on it. HOpe this helps. Best, Jasmine
Wonderful, lucid presentation. I am going to work with the ideas here with several of my clients, especially those with relationship problems alongside.
Starting with that question:
What are the costs of perfectionism? I hear you have reconsidered it as a form of addiction whilst also offering a type of protection against fear and the unpredictability of life. I need to watch again to absorb more of this, as with the earlier workshop.
Thank you.
Parts A & B have been so very interesting – lots of food for thought, particularly with regard to my own tendencies and where they may have come from. Aren’t relationships fascinating?
According to the ancient yoga traditions, behaviours are the root cause of disturbance to the physical and mental aspects of an individual. As many behaviours are reactions to events/environments they can become repetitive, habitual and even addictive. I hadn’t thought of perfectionism in this way but of course it fits with yoga concepts – and for many yoga practitioners it is being reinforced daily on their practice mats (which is just the opposite of the ancient teachings).
My students are encouraged to become aware of, and have respect for, their less than perfect bodies and find ways of becoming more comfortable and stable – with themselves, with others, with their environments. Once perfection is no longer the objective, then a successful outcome is more likely to become attainable. It’s an ongoing process of building relationship, not a target.
Process vs Goal. I have to process this more but thanks!!!!
I have a number of personally important thoughts upon watching the video about Perfectionism, although I think only two are possibly more helpful to a wider group of people.:
The spiritual practice of worshiping God who created “me” perfectly relieved me of most of my perfectionistic habits because, by way of A Course in Miracles, I found the fulfillment of my need for parental guidance and correction both outside and inside myself through the remedy of Atonement; secondly, I arrived by age 4 to a deap-seated PTSD (in 1968) when I escaped an attempt by four large men to kidnap me from my family home. This set my life’s journey on a path which was pre-disposed to performing in panic mode (flight, fright or freeze) and making “it” look easy and/or sound natural. I became an ultra-high achiever but with tragic life events concommittently. For me, perfectionism is a name for control, for reigning my scatterbrained panic (which is normal to me now) and condensing my energy so that I can express myself at least a little bit. I don’t have any of my needs fulfilled but I am always, now that I am diagnosed not as a psychotic but as having PTSD, working with Seeking Safety good coping skills list to re-invent the fabric of my life. I continue as a 54 year old woman to live homeless, single, and with an immensely gifted ability register in social isolation. I could appreciate the concept of co-regulation with a partner who is not a therapist in order to, for example, match the cat with the cat and the flower with the flower — that is to say, work is work and lover or child is humanity and certain things in life should receive more humane attention and certain aspects of life need different types of responses from me. That particular associative re-wiring would only be helpful in a two-person raft to avoid another type of egoism. Relationships with others are impossible in survival mode in my experience. I think the diagnosis which may or may not exist in clients with perfectionistic tendencies could be the main factor in determining the course of treatment for the main reason of relationship starvation.
The need to experience very deeply, every shade of love there is for having been surviving without any love, in “biological imperative mode” for so long all the various major love relations (both parents, siblings, best friend’s, lover’s- both physical and emotional best friends) all need placement in my life and in the life of any individual like me. Once found, it is like water to a man lost in the desert.
Thank you for caring and reaching out to share with us, Brigid. Warm heartfelt, Liz
Thank you for the wonderful presentations. Placing perfectionism in the context of addictive behavior has clarified for me why clients have such difficulty relinquishing this behavior. I really appreciated the reminder to focus on the costs of perfectionism rather than just challenging the irrational beliefs.
I’m a clinical counsellor and also a lecturer at a university. I wonder how I can help students (and professors) feel safe in an academic culture that fosters perfectionism. Perhaps we could cultivate a culture that fosters connectedness instead? Does this mean going against the flow?
I have a client who has been off work for a number of months due to anxiety and stress. The client has been back to work for few weeks and reports symptoms have come back. After viewing the video and the Autonomic Ladder I feel I have a better understanding of why the symptoms for this client have returned. It appears perfectionism is the issue and the client is paying the price. The price is not getting the sleep needed for the next day at work due to having to get everything done before going to bed. I liked Segal’s example of having the client learn about the price of perfectionism. I plan to explore this with my client and encourage client to experience not completing one task.
This speaks to the reason I love taking classes, but never step out into a new venture. . . .
My client is myself and I think I’m over perfectionism. In fact others have asked me whether, rather than having wide interests and pursuits where I just like to dabble, I’d tried doing less things to a greater depth and more competence.
I still prefer many pursuits and master of none. It also allows me connection with a wider group of people.
Neil, you might appreciate some of Barbara Sher’s books about people she calls Scanners, who have many interests. She’s very persuasive about how one can live a fine life that way with no need to change it. Titles include I Could Do Anything if I Only Knew What it Was, Refuse to Choose!, and others.
Sorry about the typo in my name. And yes, I kind of live in two places. 🙂
Darn thing won’t get my name right! It’s Esha Neogy. I have been a mediator and am working on becoming a teacher, hence the “other” in the listing.
Thank you, very enlightening!
Hi, I watched some of the video about perfectionism and how it cause problems. In explaining it to my husband who I think is a perfectionist who passed that trait (not that I’m blameless) to our 23 year old son who is accomplishing nothing, the best I could relay was that if a person is always only happy with perfect and they rarely get perfect it causes them to give up trying. Can you help me put it in a way to tell my son, who I am trying to be nice to- it’s not easy. . Thanks
I can tend toward perfectionism. Mine manifests itself not in mastery or paralysis necessarily but towards paralysis. I’ve noticed in my home remodeling projects over the past 20 years that I have begun many projects I have never previously attempted nor been trained to do. My perfectionism can rear its’ ugly head in accomplishing a task to a 90% degree of completion (My wife sometimes affectionately calls me “90% Jeff”). That way I avoid self and other’s judgments. Maybe we can think of perfectionism expressing itself as the extremes on a continuum from paralysis to busyness, the middle being the gray areas of life.
I can tend toward perfectionism. Mine manifests itself not in mastery or paralysis necessarily but towards paralysis. I’ve noticed in my home remodeling projects over the past 20 years that I have begun many projects I have never previously attempted nor been trained to do. My perfectionism can rear its’ ugly head in accomplishing a task to a 90% degree of completion (My wife sometimes affectionately calls me “90% Jeff”). That way I avoid self and other’s judgments. Maybe we can think of perfectionism expressing itself as the extremes on a continuum from paralysis to busyness, the middle being the gray areas of life.
This video helped me think of a client with very high anxiety, anger. That person symptoms may all be due to perfectionism.
Thank you for these insights.
This was really insightful. I can see my own behaviours clearly here but can now see what the root cause may be and thus, what needs to be worked on. Thank you.
I was very drawn to the discussion of perfection presenting as a Type A style or embedded in paralysis with the common denominator being a “constrictor of thinking.” As a teacher I can see how perfection is a mindset…a “fixed” mindset that can limit one’s willingness to put themselves out there to try new things or engage with new people. When that paralysis of thinking emerges I find it helpful to ask if we are talking about a fact or a feeling and to remind them that feelings can be changed…to try to move them more toward a growth mindset.
Imperfection can be seen to have numerous benefits.
Making mistakes and consciously acknowledging them, without judgment, can create and nurture compassion for one’s self. Self-compassion can graduate to compassion for others, especially when they have made a mistake. We can learn to cultivate kindness and acceptance of others. We can consciously work on developing empathy.
Making mistakes can also be an effective way to learn. If we get something right the first time, we may not have the deepest understanding of a process or lesson. When we make a mistake, the need to go back over the material in order to gain clarity of detail or approach may give us a more comprehensive and long-lasting understanding.
Being able to be consciously aware of, and accept, our own failures can relieve us of the burden of believing we need to have all the answers for everyone else. Who needs that kind of pressure? And who really wants the perfect answers we are offering? When we struggle, what do we want from another? If a surgeon makes a mistake and someone we love dies, what do we want? Do we want a smart analysis of what went wrong, or do we want someone with a heart who is grieving along with us? Maybe we want both.
Being able to successfully fail can help us to develop a sense of curiosity about the world, a sense of humor about ourselves, and a wider view of the possibilities life has to offer.
Failure is a great way to recognize blind spots: what assumption(s) did we make that led to this error?
One way to explore the positive side of mistakes and failures is to do an Internet search on accidental inventions and discoveries.
I fail all the time…failure is one of my greatest teachers.
I found the videos (& others’ comments) to be very enlightening for considering my own behavior/motivations. Mmmm 🙂
Very helpful, thank you!
Very helpful, informative and applicable.
Thank you.
This was very enlightening. I struggle with perfectionism, but the cost became more clear to me during this video. I realized the need to be perfect in grad school, drove me to overachieve at the cost of relationships with family members and friends. The encouragement of letting some things be imperfect is one thing that I have practiced. Now I will add to examine where the feelings of discomfort will take me.
This video helped me think of a client with very high anxiety. That person may be frozen by perfectionism.
Thank you for these insights.
Allowed a client to discuss all areas shed taken over in her life as she was best at doing them and reflect on effect that had . She now couldn’t get her husband to cook as shed done it all .. also running as a hobby had become about improving yet another pressure … friendships based on running so all fitting into better , faster more perfect model .. its an ongoing process to move her away from this but will use the knowledge gained here to help.
This description of perfectionism matches my son’s “just right” OCD diagnosis which has been lingering now for 6 years. My son lost his father at age 2, and through the course of his childhood, became a “perfect” student and nationally ranked athlete, until one day when he broke-down, and he has not been able to function since. He has been in OCD treatment off and on for 5 years but has not made significant progress (I believe because progress will force him to re-enter life, enroll in school, and risk failure). I am desperate to find someone who can explain to him why this is happening. I invite others who believe they may be able to help to reach out.
Your video confirms the dynamics involved for one of my clients who experienced a lack of interpersonal safety with a parent growing up. Over time this became a pattern of OCD with fears of contamination, starting with interactions with the parent, but has continued to grow to other life interactions. This client has only just started talking about his relationship with his parent and some of these dynamics are coming to light. Thank you for a timely video!