How to Ease the Pain of Trauma-Induced Shame
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with Bessel van der Kolk, MD;
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with Bessel van der Kolk, MD; Ruth Lanius, MD, PhD; Peter Levine, PhD; Thema Bryant-Davis, PhD; Richard Schwartz, PhD; Pat Ogden, PhD; Janina Fisher, PhD; Kathy Steele, MN, CS; Stephen Porges, PhD; Martha Sweezy, PhD, LICSW; Deb Dana, LCSW; Ruth Buczynski, PhD
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This program is so beautifully done and displays human capabilities in their finest, intricate, felt and intuited connective ways. Watching this work gives me hope that humanity can develop and heal. Thank you so much!
So much valuable information. It strongly reminds me of clients who suffer from bulimia; the strong and dominant inner critic, the addiction to relief by a form of self-harm, where they feel like they have “emptied” their shame by vomiting, the tendency to over eating to self-harm again.
I’m using this to try a different frame and approach to try and deal with this complex, kind of cronicidades issues, in the hopes of becoming better at understanding and meeting my clients needs. Especially, I’m working on building tolerance to the sensations that come when the triggers get my client deregulated, with kindness and a pace adequate to their nervous system.
Excellent editing. I love how each practitoner’s contribution is pointed up to a sharp pithy quotable statement. BUT Ruth blows that out of consciousness by IMMEDIATELY cutting in with a summary, comment, or Let’s move on to the next thing. There needs to be a reflective moment in which that key statement CAN BE ALLOWED TO LAND on our reflection-in-listening system. Honoring it.
Onwards, this is really good, as 33k. world-folk are saying.
This session provided not just tools for me to apply when working with my clients, but an insight to help me recognize their struggles within themselves and how to temper myself in order to help them. I need to be more aware of the subtle “body” messages during the rehab session the client is showing, and to stop and be more inquisitive as well as supportive.
Thank you very much for this session! All the speakers demonstrated great experience and a huge commitment to patients. I really like the emphasis on therapeutic work with great responsibility and the care not to cause harm. I would love to see the topic of moral injury expanded.
I loved meeting all of these incredibly knowledgeable and experienced practitioners, which has given me insight valuable into their work. Their delivery was accessible which can really help people to apply the ideas shared with our own experiences. Thank you so much.
This session was a very personal one for me. The discussion of moral injury really hit home. Definitely some insights to use, not only with my clients but with myself. Thank you again to all presenters. Invaluable.
The insights shared around dysregulation, danger, and positive emotions are powerful, and help bring language to how complex this nexus is at the level of the nervous system for those who have experienced prolonged trauma. Thank you for your commitment to healing.
Ooh, this session included so much helpful information for my Counseling ministry in our little International Fellowship Church. Our membership is made up by refugees, international students, and also a few who have come here because of marriage. Especially those on refugees status are trauma survivors. Many of their stories are heartbreaking and their dealings with immigration often keep adding on to that burden. Because of my BA several decades ago and because of their cultures of origin they often feel drawn to an older person for advice, they tend to talk to me. My own experience of trauma recovery has given me some insight but I usually feel terribly inadequate. My country has social system of providing Psychological Counseling but it takes quite a bit of time to be approved, waiting lists are long, and a client still has to make a copayment which is prohibitive for most. Also, for many, a church environment often feels more comfortable. I do this on a volunteer basis. Thank you so much. Now I hope that I have been able to retain some of this information on techniques (the time difference made the listening times a bit challenging and purchase is out of my reach). I feel that especially the ideas of connecting the physical body movements to feelings and the idea of talking to the shame part of oneself will be of help. It also was very helpful to hear about how the kind words can be considered triggering as well as the small phases that we use about how one doesn’t need to feel shame. These were important insights to me.
Again, thank you so much!
I have found that when the client and therapist sample and explore these different treatment approaches they can discover together the right combination. It does not have to be a either or situation, but rather it is When and What approach is best in the moment. I believe we can use body work, cognitive therapies, and IFS and other approaches together, Many tools in our Toolbox.
I like this series of teaching sessions as they don’t just focus on one theory or approach, you can begin to see how to use these different tools, and when, and how they all work together in helping clients build real recovery.
Yes! The ability to hear about so many different approaches was extremely helpful. Appreciate that very much!
It’s very helpful to see that it takes time and finesse to carefully help clients through the pain of trauma-induced pain.
I appreciated very much the insight about suicide and firefighters. I feel more confident in dealing with suicide and self harm. I also appreciated the insight about safety planning. It makes so much sense that they are much more of an “autonomic nervous system plan”. I’m grateful for all the info and sharing about more somatic approaches. Paying attention to such subtle bodily movements – like the open hand is powerful! I have never learned about moral injury before and this will be empowering in working with families that include veterans and first responders. Super helpful and applicable in my work with families.
Another great module! I love the integration of IFS into the learning and the importance of being with the inner-critic and creating space between Self and the Inner Critic. I also appreciated the language of a autonomic-regulation plan as opposed to safety plan and choosing alternative language in the presence of self-harming “firefighers” or parts and understanding their protective nature.
Lastly, I appreciated the many demonstrations and clinical application possibilites, especially the somatic ones where the anger towards the perpetrator is externalized by pushing arms/hands away. I also appreciated the importance of being mindful and intentional about the use of self-forgiveness when there is nothing in the self to forgive and how such ideas from a therapist can reinforce the unhelpful messaging from society that teaches people that they are responsible for what happens for them, when that is definitely problematic thinking for victims of any form of violence.
Another clinical application I appreciated is directly asking clients the question about “do you think self-punishment is at play here” when there is a self-harming part and also engaging in a cost-analysis where clients are asked to reflect on how long the relief lasted (adrenaline+endorphins post cutting for example)
This is my third session as I missed the first. My take away today is a very strong sense of understanding the ‘the truama story’ can wait… thank you so much for that insight. You are absolutely right – it is a kind of voyeurism on the listeners part, however it also is difficult I have found as a therapist to get a client to wait and not unload their trauma story…. I have found that they come to a point when they are about to see a ‘helping person’ as opposed to all the processing persons,.. – that they can unload and get rid of that story – even if told many many times to get to this contact. I can appreciate the value of address the person and the now…..thank you.
I have really enjoyed all sessions so far and will certainly save up for the gold access…..
Even in the Catholic faith, when an individual goes to confession, specifically descriptive disclosure is advised against to protect the priest. We are to tell which sin out of the ten commandments, whether previous intent was plotted (mortal) versus spur of the moment (venial) and how many times. if we can consider what a terrible load to carry it can be with the amount of confessions a priest must endure weekly then having to co-mingle with the shallow recidivism of penetints while not being led into sin of accusatory judgement himself by hearing too many details, it shows why having therapeutically boundaries is vital for self care as well.
It helped me to see that shame can be a form of self preservation rather than an attack upon the self, Hearing the coping strategies gave me new insights to use in relationships within shame-based cultures.
Very helpful and thorough discussion of shame, moral injury and the reaction to ‘positive emotion ‘ being too much and triggering. Loved each persons take on the best approach they’ve tried with their clients. Rebecca Health Psych and Psychodramatist
Thanks for this one, great topic!
Question about something I’ve not seen today, but would like to know more about – avoiding eye contact with, or looking at, a client who’s experiencing shame.
Peter Levine at one time explained something Bessel vd Kolk found in the brain regarding that, when they were at a conferencein Germany at the same time. I can’t seem to find more about it, but would love more info.
In the past, I have used NLP timelines to resource people’s earlier selves and bring those tools forward through their life experiences. With today’s class, I think I will use compassion and resources specific parts from IFS to more specifically resource earlier parts. I also think developing some visual and other sensory ways “to help them hold their past” in session that they can use as anchoring tools will be useful.
Thank you for sharing these wonderful new perspectives, your dedicated work is making a massive difference to people’s lives.
Brene” Browns research into shame is a great supplement to this session. I really like seeing Shame has a protective feeling.
Thanks!! Now you are getting it, one and all here. Please keep sharing from opposite framework, age and educational understanding. Knowing our nervous system was the key that we were not sufficiently taught until Porges shared his research, as well as Peter Levine, Janina Fisher, Pat Ogden, Ruth Lanais, Usha and so many others too numerous to mention all the others. I cherish these insights at my age and ongoing work in the field. As our society is in a pivotal time and we need to broaden our cohesiveness as a profession with evolving instead of conflicting egos. Thanks to all of you for sharing your wisdom together as NICABM so rightly summarizes at end of the trainings. This helps broaden the field of mental health.
In addition to this excellent content, it would be helpful to include info on moral injury for those who have shame which includes facets of pleasure. Being groomed, forced to comply with acts that compromise a victim’s moral compass. Yet, in the moment of the act or actions, finding aspects of physical or emotional pleasure in it. This leaves the person with the horribly shaming feeling of “I knew better, but I did it anyway and sometimes I even enjoyed it”.
Would welcome any other thoughts on this. Thanks!
Im so grateful.
Spanish is my speaker language, so I do my best for to understand all.
First, I will see to use this knowledge with myself.
Second, with my body work clients.
Third, for my study related with a children and teenagers mental health project, thought body and movement.
Another fantastic session today. My take-aways that stick out, and which I will more carefully attend to, are noticing the somatic holding of shame and the ways to slowly release it, as well as the lightbulb moment of repeated flashbacks being a form of self-harm. I’m mindful of clients’ ruminations but had not made the connection. Brilliant.
Thank you again for all the contributions to our learning and understanding. It is invaluable as we go forth into our work.
as a peer support a client came in one day. Her face and body almost like twisted. When I asked her. she felt envious to the daughter of her therapist. she did not know the daughter, but she imagined or felt that this daughter had the relationship and family, dhe herself were longing for. I told her. that feeling envy was understandable, and perfectly fine in this situation. Gradually she
relaxed.
working with shame in posture and generally in connection with moral injury is difficult.
Chinni
IJust loving this course. I was reticent to come on it because I don’t consider myself an advanced master. But I am finding it so helpful. Really appreciating the different approaches e.g somatic, polyvagal. Living with shame myself, from emotional abuse as a child, I can apply so much of today’s session to my own healing but have learned so many practical strategies for supporting other people too. Loved what Pat said about the soldier making that gesture and saying he needed someone to hold his hand to help him go forward. And the comments about how kindly meant comments like ‘Of course you’re not a bad person’ can be invalidating and we need to find different ways to validate their feelings and help them reframe what happened to them. Thank you all so much
I learned so much in the short time that I caught the last half of today’s session! I like the idea of creating an autonomic nervous system plan instead of a safety plan! That really makes a lot of sense to me. And I liked the part about finding the underlying cause for the self harm and deciphering whether it is to kill themselves or to feel the pain. Very helpful as I think through clients dealing with complex trauma and shame and how to help them move through it! Thank you very much!
The discussion of somatic experience got me stretching and moving my own body. I felt how it relaxes the tension. Thank you.
I already know a lot about shame but this two sentences hit me: Shame is a fire fighter and a survival response/defence and it tries to help an even more vulnerable part which lives in exile. So true. I
Very interesting. I can only use the information for psychoeducation. I am not a psychotherapist. I am a Social Worker. Thanks
Thank you. Each session has been amazing.This session has really helped me understand shame and I am truely grateful.This will help me recognise it now.
I appreciated the IFS examples, sending the critic to the room and coming in to dialogue with it later. I work with self harming clients a lot and often it’s really hard to identify a trigger or what motivates the self harming. I liked the gentle questions on what the self harming serves, how much relief does it provide etc.
Very helpful and thought provoking, Thankyou. Regarding part 4, I found it very important to note that in contrast to moral injury, therapists need to be aware that clients with trauma resulting in deep shame might feel more shame if their therapist tired to give them positive messages and the positive language might not get through to them, it exacerbate their shame. Instead, noticing somatic sensations and how that shame helped them exactly, how did it help them survive?”
Thank you so much for everyone who made this happen and those that participated in the presentations. The presenters are all coming from a genuine desire to help and each has an authentic voice that resonated in my soul, inspiring me to keep learning and keep doing this work. Thank you so much. I will be buying the Gold Package and I wish there to be more of this type and style of education and offer. Thank you. YS
As a Yoga Therapist, this session has helped my understanding of my own shame, and postural habits. Thank you for reaffirming the connection of the body with our mind and emotions. Dr. Pat Ogden’s experience with her patient was very powerful for me, and is inspiring me to continue my work in understanding the mind body connection. I have seen my students changes over the years, but didn’t understand why. This session brought me many insights about why my students have become more empowered over the years. Thank you.
Many thanks again. There are so many good points that have helped improve my understanding and which give me direction for how to improve my work.
Thank u for yet another amazing session.
Fabulous. So insightful. Thank you
very practical and useful information
I am a counseling grad student and have an interest in working with clients that are trying to recover from trauma. A few things that stuck out while listening: when people who have had traumatic experiences start experiencing good feelings, they have trouble adjusting to them. This can be terrifying to them and can be destabilizing. Another was that the flashbacks were being used as a form of punishment. You can’t just tell someone going through this that they need to forgive themselves; that can be pretty devaluing. Sometimes when this happens, the best thing to do is examine what’s going on and work through their thought processes until they realize they are carrying all the weight and don’t have to.
The fact that as a practitioner we WANT to relieve suffering is really NOT enough to do so….good intentions can cause MORE suffering….leave been doing my own healing from a somatic perspective Ala TRE (Trauma Release Exercises/ Stephen Bercelli) and Co-Counseling, an offshoot of ReEvaluation Counseling for some time,both as private practice AND as a Teacher. The Somatic aspect of each practice jas been very helpful.Also today’s dive into SHAME is quite profound as a woman AND as someone brought up Catholic. Gentleness is quite helpfultin mitigating the Trauma. Have re cognized long ago the intergenerational aspect of shame with Trauma and done lots of ancestral work ritually to understand, forgive but NOT forget. Thank you for this work. it’s SO imp. Have taught some of polyvagal theory in group cohorts of Co Counselers. PeaceOut Rosie
My great take away is understanding how shame manifests in behaviour and relationships. I also find the concept of moral injury and helping create positive experiences. very helpful with my self healing, study and volunteer work for community based healing in our indigenous community
Every day has been fantastic!!!! a few things that should out….
-Shame as heroic in childhood was powerful intervention
-careful language around self forgiveness .. I like this.. I am usually mindful..but will be more vigilant
-coregulation plan vs safety plan is helpful frame and focus for clients
– parts work and somatic interventions around shame were really helpful too.. I will use these
I will incorporate the window of tolerance with children I work with to help teach their different levels of arousal and how it presents itself.
Love the use of somatic modalities in combination with IFS! Learned about the importance of helping patients gradually tolerate positive emotions.
I am finding these lectures amazing
Today, I began to understand MY shame; and how dangerous it was if I relaxed because something happened if.I am so scared by it because I know what i feels like..
I am a counsellor but I am doing a PhD at present..
This talk gave me the insight that both my parents were shame based and the terrible thing they did to me as an adolescent was a product of that. An interpersonal transference of shame. When I hit puberty I triggered their shame about their own sexuality simply by my natural development. Understanding this has helped me understand what until now has seemed like crazy irrational behaviour that many people would find incomprehensible.
Again such a big thank you! The biggest awareness moment today was definetly not only it is difficult to feel negative emotions but also positive emotions when it is attached a traumatic event to it.
Who said, “The mortal enemy of moral injury is love”? I was in listen-only mode but that line is profound and powerful.
I think it was the Marine MD
Yes, I just looked him up.
“William P. Nash
William P. Nash, MD, is Director of Psychological Health for the U.S. Marine Corps. While on active duty in the Navy, Dr. Nash was deployed to Iraq with Marines of the 1st Marine Division during the Second Battle of Fallujah. His current interests focus on the prevention, recognition, and treatment of combat and operational stress injuries, including moral injury. He is coeditor of Combat Stress Injuries: Theory, Research, and Management and founding chair of the Military Committee of the Group for the Advancement of Psychiatry.”
Thank you Maile Teter.
I believe it was William Nash, MD. He was speaking the most about moral injury. [Unfortunately I didn’t catch the specific line to which you refer. I missed parts of the video streaming with other things requiring my attention and my not being able to 100% tune in to both sessions I could attempt to watch today.]
P.S. I’m thankful you shared that line that I had missed. I found much of what he said to be very helpful. The whole program and all the professionals are, but I hadn’t yet heard about “moral injury” and it’s very empowering to gain this aspect of understanding.
Yes, thank you!
Really appreciated the part about using a body based approach as most survivors are so apt at rumination