How to Work with Emerging Defense Responses to Trauma (Beyond the Fight/Flight/Freeze Model)
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with Pat Ogden, PhD;
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with Pat Ogden, PhD; Stephen Porges, PhD; Bessel van der Kolk, MD; Janina Fisher, PhD; Kathy Steele, MN, CS; Deb Dana, LCSW; Ruth Lanius, MD, PhD; Thema Bryant-Davis, PhD; Ruth Buczynski, PhD
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In Usha Tummala-Narra’s story of how her client thought she might disappoint her, based on the fact that Usha was the kind of person ‘who would never let herself get into that situation’. How can we let our clients know enough about ourselves and our fragile, broken parts, to make sure they do not feel that? I was not sure how Usha dealt with it. This has happened to me, and I exposed personal parts of my own journey, but I know when I have been in therapy, the therapists do not do that.
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ps THANK YOU
Lou, my foster-girl’s Sophie’s sister has long had discussion around a DID diagnosis, which her sister, who is well-progressed in therapy has always said feels wrong. That “her problem iis our shared childhood trauma. Nothing else.” Today’s accounts of the “collapse and submit” response and the “cry for help” nervous system origin will make a critical difference to both my clever girls. Always when Sophie can understand the logic of her nervous system another level of trauma programming falls out of her system. And Sophie is the only person Lou trusts enough to open the trauma wiring. But between my “stable base” and Sophie’s sibling relationship we may be able to help Lou along. Thank you especially to the lovely kind man who tells his clients “I wish you could see what I see”. That man has lots of ways to articulate what’s true- he loves his clients. I recognise it because I love my girls, in a different-boundaried but equivalent way. My counsellors have repeatedly commented on it as very strong and surprising. However while I love both my girls, love on its own hasn’t been enough. Today gives me a response to Lou other than nights and days of holding her like a small child. Both girls are in their 20s and Lou bore the brunt of the sexual abuse for which Sophie has survivor guilt. We have the raw ingredients to work – I have all the love and resilience and both girls trust me. Now we have some insight and new ways to articulate and balance. I have renewed hope for both girls as a family and for Lou themself to get to more good times. Together and in life. In general, without more years passing them by which jjst adds to their grief load. To all the survivors reading here, Sophie, Lou and I want you to know that you are never alone and someone careseven if you can’t see or feel us. We spend a few hours every week just sending out love and care to all the other grown up kids who still need it. We trust (and pray) you feel it when you need it. Thank you forthis which Lou and Soph could never afford and now Lou and her co-residents aretalking about it. So much lovefrom Claire in Scotland (not a legal fosterer. Just a borrowed-Mum.)
This has been so helpful to me as a client. I have unfortunately had a lot of very harmful therapy and it has often been explicitly said to me that there is too much wrong with me to be helped. Hearing these things gives me a lot of hope not only that there might be someone out there who knows how to help, but that I’ll also be able to recognize someone who knows what they are doing and distinguish between that and someone who doesn’t know. It also of course helps me to know better how to help clients and how to properly refer out when i feel like I don’t have enough experience to hone able to help someone.
Thank you so much for this brilliant module. I believe every person working in the trauma field should have this knowledge and understanding. As a trauma survivor and practitioner this has been invaluable and I have learnt so much about how to work with the subtle communication in the therapeutic relationship. Looking forward to next week 🙂
wow. the most valuable information about trauma. some other courses i have done was all overloaded with theory, irrelevant (at that stage) information that i just found to be overwhelming. This has been so insightful, relevant, to the point information that i can go and use with some of my clients straight away. Thank you for an opportunity to be part of this.
Another stellar module today! I learned a lot. My biggest takeaways were learning the four ways that Collapse/Submit may present and how to approach those, as well as the function of the Please/Appease response. Not only was this module eye-opening and empowering for me personally, I have also gained profound knowledge and tools to better assist my clients when trauma responses present themselves. I am grateful to all the presenters here at NICABM. The work you do is greatly appreciated. Much gratitude.
I will work off my notes and use a colleague to practice some of the subtleties of what I learned today or that I had forgotten over the years.
I plan to apply this to a client who is a multiple personality. I have been holding back some of the subtleties of what I know, because I was afraid of hurting this client, which made her feel I didn’t know what I was doing.
I am encouraged!
This research is highly practical, wonderfully nuanced work. I see clients move between collapse/submit and please/appease in session and in the narratives they share. I am not completely clear on how freeze differs from collapse/submit, except that collapse is a full showdown. Would you say that collapse/submit is the high end of a freeze (Dorsal) spectrum? Thank you.
I heard those two states differentiated in terms of muscle tonicity amongst other things
This is a better frame for understanding how women stay in domestic violence relationships and fosters more patience on the part of the therapist.
Thank you for discussion how to listen to patients and our own bodies nervous system reactions to trauma and abuse from attachment, collapse, please and appease. Will discuss with my patients.
I actually was able to use the understanding of please/appease today to help a client understand what their NS was doing. It really helped them to calm and to be curious about learning more to understand themselves. Thanks so much for making this free, as I simply could not afford it! You have made a difference in the lives of my clients.
My biggest takeaway is to use my nervous system to recognize what may be going on with my client’s nervous system.